<DAZ_Rhyno> Hello everyone, welcome to the ArtZone Featured Chat with David Perry
<DAZ_Rhyno> David has worked on a plethora of great games including some favorites of mine- Paperboy, Earthworm Jim, and MDK. Which made for some great conversation during the carpool to work today.
<DAZ_Rhyno> Now, David is CEO of gameconsultants.com and co founder of Shiny Entertainment. Welcome David, why don't you start off by telling us a little about your history in the industry?
<dperry> Hey Everyone, nice to Chat-Meet you all! :) Thanks for inviting me!
<dperry> I've been doing this all for a long long time.
<dperry> Feeling older now... But STILL having fun.
<dperry> I'm actually announcing a new game TONIGHT!
<dperry> Been up to 1AM every night working on that sucker.
<dperry> I've taken some time to browse this site and am super impressed.
<Hellwolve> I've seen it asked and answered a lot, but I'd like your take: what does it take to get into the gaming biz?
<dperry> It takes a few things.
<dperry> You need to obviously like games.
<dperry> Yes there are people that don't.
<dperry> I hired a guy once...
<dperry> He made horrible comments out aloud to the team...
<dperry> "These stupid games!"
<dperry> Probably a bad idea...
<dperry> He didn't last long...
<dperry> Then there's passion.
<dperry> I LOVE people that feel they CAN-DO
<dperry> Meaning they don't know how to YET
<dperry> But don't worry, they will do whatever it takes to learn
<dperry> Those people are a please to work with.
<Dream_Catcher_Designs> My oldest son is very interested in game design as a career. What skills , education, etc are most useful to someone wanting to work in the gaming industry?
<dperry> But here's the most important bit...
<dperry> It's not about education...
<dperry> It's about what you can show.
<dperry> The saying "A picture paints a thousand words"
<dperry> In our industry, it paints 10,000 words.
<dperry> I'm kinda tired reading resumes.
<dperry> Because the person that shows up is usually completely different (ability wise)
<dperry> I love to see trailers.
<dperry> I love to see artwork.
<dperry> I love to see level designs.
<dperry> Even breaking down another game and taking a close look.
<dperry> I've tested the theory.
<dperry> I got a trailer that was NOT a game, but looked like one.
<dperry> So I pitched it.
<Hellwolve> I like mods and modding a lot. Some game devs, however, seem to hate it. Any thoughts on that?
<dperry> As it it WERE a game.
<dperry> A publisher immediately offered to fund it.
<dperry> So here's the point...
<dperry> 99% of new teams and developers rush off to make a big complex demo.
<dperry> That's awesome, but takes ages!
<dperry> You can just render up your VISION for the gameplay.
<dperry> Using game cameras, interface etc.
<dperry> You can actually get an instant job just for that.
<RoseWolf> So to get a good job, you should send a bit of your portfolio with your resume at the end?
<dperry> OK the mod question...
<dperry> MODs are a great place to learn how difficult it is to do games.
<dperry> I'm on the board of a college and we have the students make videos of their skillz
<dperry> The ones with MODS are very valuable
<dperry> The reason is because they have worked out how to use the tools.
<dperry> They have worked out how to work in a team.
<dperry> They have made REAL game assets.
<dperry> So while it's not an instant job, it's instant experience.
<dperry> It also might make you find out that game-making is not as fun as it sounds!
<dperry> It's hard tedious work sometimes. But the end result is worth the pain.
<Hellwolve> When choosing between trying to get work as a game consultant or a 'normal' employee for a game company, what would you go for?
<DAZ_Biggie> Hi David. You've run one of the most successful development companies in history. Why did you decide to go on your own and consult?
<dperry> I have actually done both.
<dperry> I'm making games... But also consulting.
<dperry> Was consulting 5 minutes before I started typing...
<dperry> Both are fun.
<dperry> Consulting lets me be a part of cool projects without having to be there for three years.
<dperry> I get to dive in at the fun part, play it and give opinions.
<dperry> That said for income...
<dperry> Consulting is risky...
<dperry> Keeping working coming in is tough.
<dperry> I plan to start a website for our business to help those people out, but don't give up your daytime job till you see the work flowing in...
<Cazcie> My boyfriend is in his second year of game art and design in college, he is taking all the useful classes for visual creation, images, renders, animation and such.. but what he really wants to do is write the storys, characters, mobs, environment he has several ideas for some realy cool games but isn't quite sure where to take them. Would you have any suggestions?
<dperry> Aha! A good question...
<dperry> A tough question...
<dperry> My advice is pretty simple...
<dperry> Based on what I said before, how can he SHOW that it's a great idea.
<dperry> The way to do that is to find people to help him make that trailer.
<dperry> Like-minded people.
<dperry> This site could be a KILLER resource for that.
<dperry> Finding a style, then seeing who is interested in helping.
<dperry> I even offer a free wiki to let people get these projects going.
<DAZ_Biggie> Please submit questions by clicking on the @QuestionBot user on the right hand side of your screen
<dperry> www.dpfiles.com/dpfileswiki
<dperry> So try to round up people that like your idea.
<dperry> You also get to be a producer as you manage what each of them contributes.
<dperry> (sorry for the typo's)
<DAZ_Kevin> You have a history of coming up with unusual and slightly twisted games-- do you feel that the latest innovations are allowing you to explore your creativity?
<dperry> I love making games you can't guess we would make.
<dperry> That was the mantra back when I was programming.
<dperry> Over time we dove into licensing, but soon decided to go back to "old shiny"
<dperry> I was working on a new idea at Shiny just before I left.
<dperry> I was pretty excited about that and was planning to use a lot of new innovations (incuding technology) to pull that off.
<dperry> I look at technology as a tool.
<dperry> Imagine you are a carpenter.
<dperry> You have a saw, then someone invents a hammer.
<dperry> It makes the possibilites wider.
<dperry> So I LOVE when companies like Nvidia, or Sony or Nintendo or Microsoft bring out cool new hardware.
<dperry> Or more horsepower.
<dperry> There's TONS of things we have yet to do.
<Kittylitter> Do you actually still play games? For your own enjoyment?
<Hellwolve> 'Nother classic question: what's your own favorite game?
<maartenvs> hello David what is your all time favourite video game?
<dperry> Yes. I do still play games. I have a shelf of about 50 brand new games right now to play.
<dperry> Problem is I get into one and it hogs time.
<mattymanx> What is the genre of game you like the most?
<dperry> World of Warcraft! Argh!
<dperry> Big mistake starting that.
<dperry> I also love demos.
<dperry> It's a quick fix!
<dperry> You can go on Xbox 360 and download ALL the demos.
<dperry> Sometimes you get a really nice surprise...
<dperry> Like LOST PLANET from Capcom.
<dperry> Blew me away.
<dperry> Really nice work and it's only just the demo.
<dperry> Handhelds also rock...
<dperry> I fly around quite a lot...
<dperry> So thank goodness for Nintendo DS and PSP.
<dperry> It's fun playing wireless at 30,000 feet and hearing a guy at the back of the plane freak out when you kick his ass for the 10th time!
<dperry> Nobody knows what the heck is going on!
<Dolphins-Dreams> Was it hard to work on high profile games such as the Matrix?
<darthuv> Do you think many game reviewers harsh criticism of movie-based games is warranted?
<dperry> High profile games are fun... I got to meet the people making the movie.
<dperry> Deadlines are the main problem.
<dperry> We end up writing 200 pages of design of which 100 pages makes it into the game.
<dperry> Commony the 100 pages lost contains some cool stuff that we have to "keep it for the next game".
<dperry> After the Matrix games we changed out entire production system at Shiny.
<dperry> So we had a producer in every department in the trenches.
<dperry> Meaning we needed the producers to really get their hands dirty.
<dperry> In Hollywood I was amazed when I watched their producers deal with really tricky situations.
<dperry> We had a guy editing dialog, we had stars in the trailer, high pressure...
<dperry> Costing a fortune and the guy doing the work passed out...
<dperry> He was the only one that knew how to handle it.
<dperry> What the heck?
<dperry> Shake him!
<dperry> No he's done!
<dperry> In comes a Hollywood producer...
<dperry> Already dialing on their cellphone.
<dperry> Someone was in that chair in no-time... Typing away.
<dperry> Had all the actors on set the next morning like nothing ever happened.
<dperry> Who the heck was that person?
<dperry> That's the way they work.
<dperry> Top producers solve ANY problem in real-time.
<dperry> They are CLOSE to what's going on.
<dperry> I really enjoyed the experience.
<dperry> The big hollywood games can be stressful, but they also open many doors.
<CarlPrice> so for some of your higher-profile games in the past, what was a small smidgin of those 'keep it for the next game' content?
<dperry> So I have to say, I don't in any way regret working on the games, but I do wish we had more time.
<dperry> Games tend to get a lot better in the last 6 months.
<dperry> The problem is you NEED that last 6 months.
<dperry> I think we understand that now more than ever.
<dperry> I've been working hard on trying to improve the emotion in games.
<dperry> Meaning that even firing a gun can have attitude.
<dperry> So if you watch an actor closely. As they fire their 6th bullet into someone, they tend not to be in the same pose.
<dperry> Many games still have a "firing pose"
<dperry> I had a great animation director and we were experimenting with where dynamically driving the animation with attitude would take us.
<dperry> Good stuff, has lots of potential.
<BAR-CODE> Do you do 3D design and what programs do you use for it
<Partek> Do you use programs like Poser or DazStudio for Intros etc.?
<dperry> I love this question.
<dperry> I'm not actually an artist. (Very sadly.)
<dperry> I still watch Bob Ross on TV and dream that someday I can paint that way.
<dperry> :)
<dperry> But I do believe in learning.
<dperry> Meaning I take classes in just about everything.
<dperry> I have just bought a whole collection of 3D Studio Max training DVD's.
<dperry> And so yes, you bet I'm going to study.
<dperry> I think that it's important "to know" even if my 3D will completely suck.
<dperry> I promise not to inflict any on the ArtZone site!
<RoseWolf> Do you play the games that you work on, or are you too tired of looking at it to play?
<Cdlzt> what game(s) did you enjoy working on most?
<dperry> Absolutely....
<dperry> Normally I can't face the game.
<dperry> I never played the final Enter the Matrix or Path of Neo.
<dperry> We did do a game called Sacrifice however that I did enjoy a lot.
<dperry> I played that at home and there's still a strong fan base for it.
<dperry> They want to make Sacrifice 2, so maybe I'll help with that.
<DAZ_Kevin> It is always interesting to find what games those who make games play... what is in your Game Cube...or D/S or whatever your system of choice?
<dperry> Let me go see... Hold on...
<DAZ_Biggie> *E*
* DAZ_Biggie hums theme to Jeopardy...
<dperry> Advance Wars (new one) on DS
<dperry> Bloody love that game.
<dperry> Virtua Tennis on PSP (as I was playing wireless on the plane)
<dperry> I bought two copies.
<FrederickRM> Did you start out your career thinking you would be video game giant or did you have other plans?
<moonrancher> Now that you're older, do you worry about losing the younger market?
<dperry> I had planned to be a pilot on Concorde.
<dperry> I was really serious about hat.
<dperry> that.
<dperry> Then I had a friend take me into the cockpit.
<dperry> I'm 6'8" tall, so I just didn't fit at all.
<dperry> You couldn't get a credit card in there with me.
<dperry> So that dashed my hopes...
<dperry> In the meantime I got into programming.
<dperry> I got published in magazines.
<dperry> Then the dude that owned the publishing company called.
<dperry> "Wanna do a chapter in a book?"
<dperry> Sure!
<dperry> "Wanna do your own book?"
<dperry> Absolutely!
<dperry> So I started making enough money to buy games and as much candy as I could chew.
<dperry> Life was good!
<dperry> Then I got offered a job for a stunning $5K per year.
<dperry> Do you take it?
<dperry> Big question?
<dperry> I decided to. And thank goodness I did!
<dperry> Zip forward 20+ years and I just wish I had started even earlier!
<dperry> As for being old. The game being announced tonight is trendy.
<dperry> They hired me to make a TRENDY game.
<dperry> So I don't feel TOO old!
<mmelo777> Hi Dave, a few years ago I worked with a mate of yours in England, Chris Wood, who reminisced about the days you both did spectrum games over there. How did you end up in the US, and these days what are your opinions on the differences in "game dev mood/attitude" between Europe and the US?
<dperry> Chris Wood...
<dperry> That's a blast from the past.
<dperry> I was on a unicycle hockey team with him in England.
<dperry> That's a PAINFUL sport!
<dperry> To come to the USA...
<dperry> I was offered an offer I couldn't refuse.
<dperry> "Come to the USA"
<dperry> "Where Baywatch is filmed"
<dperry> "We will pay you well"
<dperry> "Give you a car"
<dperry> "And we are close to Disneyland!"
<dperry> As if I ever got time to go to Disneyland.
<dperry> I worked my butt off.
<dperry> Global Gladiators got game of the year
<dperry> so they asked me to stay.
<dperry> How could I refuse? It's awesome in California.
<dperry> So I did Cool Spot and Aladdin while wating for a green-card.
<dperry> Then I started Shiny.
<dperry> I'm now an American.
<dperry> That was funny!
<dperry> I had to study for the "TEST"
<dperry> There is an actualy "TEST" to become an American.
<dperry> You get a cheat sheet of questions from the attorneys.
<dperry> Then the big day came.
<dperry> I sat down.
<dperry> The lady said "What colors make up the American Flag"
<dperry> My response?
<dperry> "You mean like the one behind your head!?"
<dperry> She said "Welcome to the United States of America!"
<Revelation_23> Are there any games that you've played and said, "Man, I wish I could've made that!"?
<dperry> World of Warcraft?
<dperry> I remember Rob Pardo before he got involved in that.
<dperry> I don't know if he would return my calls now?
<dperry> (just kidding)
<dperry> Some games are just amazing.
<dperry> I love the designers that think "BIG"
<dperry> Peter Molyneux
<Dolphins-Dreams> Which game you worked on did you favor the most, my question being with the design aspect in mind?
<dperry> Will Wright
<dperry> Miyamoto
<dperry> etc.
<dperry> Interesting question...
<dperry> The truth...
<dperry> It's always the next game.
<dperry> The one I was doing for Shiny when I left, had me really excited.
<dperry> But now I'm working on Massively Multiplayer Games.
<dperry> It's like starting my career all over.
<dperry> I'm a novice, and I need to learn fast!
<dperry> But that's what I'm doing.
<dperry> I've got a lot of super talented designer friends.
<dperry> Last weekend I was at the "Game Designer's Workshop" in Las Vegas.
<dperry> Never heard of it?
<dperry> Neither had I.
<dperry> And no it's not just for gambling.
<dperry> Though there was of course some of that going on...
<dperry> They are just accomplished writers and designers having a quiet meeting.
<DAZ_Biggie> Please submit your questions by clicking on the @QuestionBot user on the right of your screen...
<dperry> To ask ANY question in private and have a huge (joint) design IQ work on the problem
<dperry> Very interesting stuff. And even after 20+ years, I still learn a TON of stuff.
<dperry> That's what keeps the job so interesting.
<Kittylitter> With the costs for developing a game running higher and higher and the publishers preferring safe investments into yet another title in a well-know series, how hard is it to push new and innovative ideas?
<dperry> It's really frustrating more than hard.
<dperry> I see some of the big names get really quite annoyed.
<dperry> Interestingly it's not just getting funding, it's the way publishers treat them.
<dperry> You borrow money, we take all your IP...
<dperry> We own your source code....
<dperry> We get the rights on your next game...
<dperry> If you sell, you have to give us a piece etc...
<dperry> It sounds resonable until you look at what you get, it's a loan.
<dperry> They want that money back...
<dperry> So now investors are getting more interesting to developers.
<dperry> Investors want the developer to do well.
<dperry> And as the world changes to digital distribution, that's a pretty good bet.
<dperry> So you start to see things like Foundation9 (which bought Shiny) funded by Francisco Partners.
<dperry> You see Bono's Elevation Partners pouring money into Bioware/Pandemic.
<dperry> Personally I like this as it's getting behind the developers in a big way.
<dperry> It could change the publishing paradigm.
<dperry> Making publishers into distributors.
<dperry> That would make the developers happier.
<dperry> I'm trying to help there too...
<dperry> I've started a company called www.gameinvestors.com to help support those investors.
<dperry> I don't really care if it's big or not....
<dperry> If it's big, then great, I help a ton of developers.
<dperry> If it's small then at least I help a few developers.
<dperry> Will be interesting...
<NaomiSullivan> What do you like most about your work, and what do you like least?
<dperry> Let's get the least out of the way....
<dperry> I hate Microsoft Excel.
<Zwille> What is Your motivation to do the parts of Your work, which You love not so much?
<dperry> So when I'm asked to give budgets for the next 7 years predicting our Fedex bills and how much Sugar we need. I hate that.
<dperry> For best, I love ideas.
<dperry> I love to hear something that makes me think "Holy Mackerel - I wish I'd thought of that!"
<dperry> I read a book that made me feel that way. It was called Nano.
<dperry> It had some really neat ideas in it.
<dperry> I contacted the writer, met him at Starbucks and said "Dude! You could be a game designer"
<dperry> "You have some really cool ideas in here"
<dperry> So I challenged him to come up with more NEW game ideas, not seen before.
<dperry> And he did!
<dperry> So just know that it's hard to tell who the good ideas with come from...
<dperry> I just hope to meet them before someone else does!
<Colleen_Plantagenet> Where is game design going in the next five years?
<dperry> You have an hour for that answer?
<dperry> :)
<dperry> I think that game design has many many new directions to go in.
<dperry> The main theme however will be playing together.
<dperry> Doing things together.
<dperry> The game I'm launching tonight actually lets you get married.
<dperry> You can literally get rings and get married in the game.
<dperry> That's the fun part.
<dperry> The game also has DIVORCE!
<dperry> That's expensive (of course)
<dperry> :)
<dperry> So the point here is that there's millions of small ideas that just have not been fully played with yet.
<DAZ_Biggie> "because it's worth it!" lol
<dperry> Some will work, some won't.
<dperry> It will be a mix of new animation tech (like I talked about)
<dperry> It will be speech recognition
<dperry> Where you can talk to your co-pilot for example.
<dperry> Speech cognition.
<dperry> So he can understand what the heck you are saying.
<dperry> Initially words will be controlled, and managed, but improve over time.
<dperry> Cognition is interesting...
<dperry> There's a demo called Facade where the researchers recorded people trying to break it.
<dperry> This let them make it stronger.
<dperry> So they can secretly record what people do to break speech systems.
<dperry> Anyway I could go on and on about every field.
<dperry> Nothing is complete at this point.
<dperry> NO area is close to fully explored.
<dperry> And if you think we are even close then a new controller like the Wii comes out and shakes it all up again.
<DAZ_Rhyno> Thanks so much David, your insights and stories have been great to read.
<DAZ_Rhyno> You sure you don't want to drop a couple more hints. . . .?
<dperry> Anytime!
<dperry> Hints?
<dperry> Just check out www.acclaim.com
<dperry> :)
<dperry> With your breakfast tomorrow.
<DAZ_Rhyno> we'll be watching :)
<dperry> Thanks everyone for the questions...
<DAZ_Rhyno> Thanks again! Time to unleash the dogs of war :)
<Pendraia> Thank you
<Kuanbyr> Thanks David, that was an interesting talk!
<Ducksy> Thankyou David :)
<ghost_13> that was cool dude have a good one
<virtualtiger> Wow
<Hellwolve> David, it was my pleasure to ask 'em ;-) You even got me inspired again to get back at modding :-D
<BigRedKane> thanks for the chat Dave....:-)
<ImmortalImaging> Thank You for your time David
<wawadave 1> thank you!!!
<Kimberly30> Thanks David
<mcvdaz> Thanks for an informative look at the world of gaming!
<CarlPrice> Thanks David!
<maartenvs> thanks David
<virtualtiger> Thank you David
<BoneDiva> Thank you David this was extremely interesting :)
<Alowyn> Thank you, David...)
<dperry> Thanks!
<Samanthie> Thanks David, very interesting.
<profotograf> Thanks David!
<APDI> great chat! Thanks David!
<Spiritfoxy> thank you *smile*
<Flak> thanks for th interview and your time, David
<RoseWolf> No Daz vouchers or anything?
<Faerie Fanatic> Thank you David
<Haruchai> Thanks, came in late but what I caught was really interesting.
<l33tace> thanks for an entertaining chat. :)
<DaveMc3D> Thanks David
<Risika75> Thanks David :)
<cheslee> that was very interesting,thanx David.
<Vilian> Thank you, it was a fascinating read ! Will look forward to your newest creation :)
<Digimon01> Thanks David!
<JWideman> Get married in the game? Wow. Welcome to 1995. :P
<RoseWolf> Thanks David for all the information.
<Hellwolve> Incidently, I think I'll try to get crew together for atrialer ;-)
<phuoclam24> thans David!!
<profotograf> So for those of you who want the discount code for PoserAddicts, stick around.
<Revelation_23> Some interesting thoughts to chew on for my own ideas. Thanks for taking the time to chat with us.
<LeChatDesigns> I just checked out Marlowe's Nano, it looks awesome.
<aqua1955> Thanks David! It was very interesting
<dtagonhunter> keep up the inovations
<Vadlor> thanks David, it was a nice and informative chat :)
<Elliandra> Thank you for taking the time to chat with us David *smiles*
<arcady0> Discount code?
<CitizenM> Thanks, David! Very insightful and interesting. I appreciate your taking the time. Thanks again!
<RoseWolf> Gotta go get ready for work.
<Woman-Eating-Tiger> 'tanks for the info
<LeChatDesigns> Thanks for sharing that book with us. I love nanotechnology.
<moonrancher> Thanks, Dave
<profotograf> Yes... special ArtZone discount coupon for the store PoserAddicts for those here.
<JWideman> is that the giveaway this week?
<cyberdoc> Cool
<PCGaijin> thanks, is was a good chat :) bye!
<profotograf> its a nice thing from me to you guys.
<Nester751> Thank you David, missed most of the chat, but it looked interesting, hope to read the recap.
<JWideman> $ off or % off?
<Lilliana> Nah, Pro is being very generous ;)
<profotograf> % off
<profotograf> on top of the % already on the products
<profotograf> if anyone is interested.
<darthuv> Thank you David. Hmm, make a trailer, that's somthing to think about.
<Froggy42> thanx david, lots to think about
<Cazcie> is poser addicts a free site or subscription site?
<dperry> If you EVER have questions (or I can help in any way), feel free to fire them into my forums... I'm happy to answer them. www.dpfiles.com
<duncan-blues> profotograf> Shoot
<Digimon01> yeah....
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